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Joe Hogue – His Fight To Be A Father

Joe Hogue

Bambi Weavil: What is your coming out story to the world? How was coming out in relation to your past marriage? When you told your son that you were gay, what was that like? How did he handle it?

Joe Hogue: Well in 2001, I had been married for 12 years. I grew up conservative Christian (Southern Baptist and I was taught that being gay simply was NOT an option. So it was hard for me to accept the natural urges I had growing up. So I married one of my good friends from my hometown. I was a fairly successful music producer (mostly Christian Music) in Nashville, earning a Grammy and Dove Award, and even an Emmy. SO we tried to keep up with the Jone’s and lived in the nicer part of town with the suburban and all, and I believed that this was my life, despite the secrets! However, I then met my soul mate, Sean (who was married at the time as well), and I could not ignore how powerful that connection was, so I came out to my wife at the time. I immediately did all the things I knew she and the Christian community would want me to do. Both Sean and I went to an ex-gay counselor (which believes you can be straight). We read all the books my ex-wife and friends and family wanted us to read. All along knowing that Sean and I could not be apart! The main thing I learned with the counselors was to be honest in every aspect of my life. I have always been a people pleaser and it was finally a relief to get who I was out in the open. Though it was only the beginning of my struggles.

Almost a year after I came out and had separated from my ex-wife, I found out that my son had asked a relative if was in love with Sean. My son was 9 at the time so I felt it was time for him to know the truth. He had heard things like, “Your dad is covered in sin!, your dad is going to hell, and even that Sean was a bad guy and the reason your Dad left us!” So I sat my son down and told him that God made me gay, and that was why I could not love his mother the way she needed to be loved. I then explained what that meant and, at the time Rosie O’Donnell’s talk show was on the TV and she had just “come out.” To help explain that there are lots of gay people, I pointed to her and said, “you know Rosie is gay?” He said, “oh cool I love her she does the Kid’s
Choice Awards on Nickelodeon.” And when I told him that Sean and I were together, he said “Ahh, why couldn’t it have been Chris? He’s so much
cooler!” I laughed, as Chris is a straight friend that taught HipHop Dance and drove a convertible mustang. A typical child reaction. And he seemed
liked it all made sense now. He said, “That’s why Mom got mad when she saw Sean etc…” He also said he hoped his Mom would find a rich guy to marry!
Again, typical. He then wanted to go out and play. I then called his counselor and explained that I had talked to my son. However, when he
returned for his next visit, my son had an abnormal bad attitude and was quoting me Bible verses and false statistics about homosexuality. His
behavior improved in a short amount of time though.

BW: It’s impossible to ignore your successful career in the music industry in the last 20 years working with artists such as Faith Evans and Donna Summer.
Has the music industry supported you being out and in your fight to gain custody of your son?

JH: Well when I came out, my ex-wife outed me to a record executive (where I received most of my work at that time) and a business partner that I had. The news spread fast, so needless to say I lost most ALL of my Christian music work. They didn’t care if I was an Emmy and Grammy Award winning producer or not! I felt an enormous pressure to lie and stay in the closet, like so many others in the religious business field. But I had to be honest with who God made me! I had a couple of clients that did not care about my sexual orientation and continued to work with me. Soon thereafter, the judge allowed my ex-wife and son to move from Nashville to Florida. Sean and I decided it was best to move to Los Angeles since it had more opportunities for music producers and composers and there wasn’t really anything keeping me in Nashville any longer. So we moved to LA in 2004 and have loved it! It is a starting over but there is so much potential. The diversity and energy are amazing. We have met some great people in the industry and it seems like we’ve actually have received more opportunities from being gay! Since we were shunned from Christian/Gospel music, we have been more available to work with many gay artists like Nemesis, Ari Gold, Jason & Demarco, Esera Tuaolo (ex NFL Player) and Christian Andreason to name a few. I don’t feel
that being an out producer has had much affect on our business outside of the Christian music field. We either do great work or we don’t, and we
LOVE what we do. Sean and I have now joined forces as a producer team and we go by the name HitPlay, and our new company is HitPlay Productions
LLC.

We HAVE had lots of support already in the fight for custody. We are just getting started in this fight but artists like Cher, Tom Petty, Cyndi Lauper, Carrie Fisher, Jamie Lee Curtis and other celebrities are quickly jumping in to help. These celebrities are donating items to be auctioned on ebay to help support this fund raiser. A father should not have to fight to see his own son, but I am glad to know that people are being made aware of this common struggle for fathers.

BW: What has your support been like in the local and international gay community?

JH: Well, we are just getting out there in the gay community. The ACLU was a great help when judge Robert E. Lee Davies, in Tennessee, sentenced me to jail for telling my son that I was gay. They handled the second appeal with the supreme courts in Tennessee. Finally getting a unanimous vote that it was unconstitutional. Since it has been a non-stop battle we have been to court over 6 times. So we hope to get our story out to the community. Most people have a hard time believing that this stuff still goes on!

BW: What would be your advice to gay parents such as yourself?

JH: Don’t give up! Call Lambda Legal at the beginning. They can help steer you in the right direction. Don’t be too proud to ask for help! I have talked to so many gay parents that gave up. It can be a horrific up hill battle, and can be too much for any one person to handle. So please try and gain support. Thankfully, Sean and I were going through all this together, but contact Friends and Family and any support group or organization that can encourage and offer help. We hope to start some kind of organization that can help in extreme cases financially. In our case just traveling to Florida from California is a great expense and when every penny is going towards court costs and legal fees, it can be overwhelming! Don’t give up! Don’t lose your cool. It can
get very personal and sometimes you feel backed into a corner. Just know that there are lots of people that are going through what you are going
through. Hang in there and it can all work out.

BW: How long have you been with your partner and how does he support you in your efforts to get full-time custody of your son?

JH: My partner and I met in February of 2001, so 6 years. I know I could not have done this without his help and support. He has been my paralegal trying to keep costs down. He has been my counselor! He has helped me through some really hard emotional times. He keeps me focused and sacrifices his own goals for mine. I feel bad that he has to go through my divorce too (he went through his divorce at the same time). He always tells me he would have it no other way. Thankfully, he and his ex-wife handled their divorce in a very mature and healthy manner.

BW: How has the mainstream public and media viewed your case?

JH: Mainstream media has been great! Like I said earlier, most people have a hard time believing that I was sentenced to jail for telling my son that I was gay! You can read all about it if you Google my name and the word gay (“Joe Hogue” Gay). People all over the world were amazed this kind of discrimination and ignorance continue to control our lives. A few years ago, during my appeal, I was asked to be on the “Bill O’Reilly Show,” but the ACLU discouraged the interview due to Bill’s apparent dislike of the ACLU. All I can say is without the ACLU, people would still be sentenced to jail for being gay. I am very grateful to them.

BW: How has the law progressed since you’ve been fighting for custody since 2004?

JH: Well the laws have changed in Tennessee since our supreme court win with the ACLU. Now restraining orders can no longer be placed on someone’s “lifestyle.” The restraining order that was placed on me said that I could not expose my son to my “gay lover/lovers or my gay lifestyle.” The word “lifestyle” is too broad, and the supreme court agreed. As far as custody issues, we are just now fighting for custody. Despite many other reasons, we decided to fight for custody when my ex-wife did not let my son come out for his scheduled 4 week summer visit in June. Now our case is moved from
Tennessee to Florida, since my son resides there, at the moment. Laws seem to be continually changing for gay people, some good and some bad. It
seems to depend on the state one lives in. Our countries past civil rights movements didn’t happen over night, but it’s important to realize your
voice in the process and that’s what excites me most about my story becoming more public. If my story can help someone, even just a bit, then
I am happy. And in the end, we aim to have a non-profit organization available for support as well.

BW: What can people do to support you and other gay parents like you?

JH: We have a website set up for those who are interested in giving donations and to learn about the ebay auction. I also have songs that are for sale, with me singing, and all those proceeds will help this cause. The website is http://www.myspace.com/fightingformyson.

To help other gay parents, the best thing you can do is to vote wisely in the upcoming elections. We live in a country who boasts the phrase “Justice for ALL,” but it seems like people really only vote for things that directly affect themselves, so unless citizens are gay or have a gay child or friend, they really have a hard time understanding what it means to be in their shoes. Once both Sean and I “came out,” it completely changed our perspective on politics and religion. We now understand what it’s like to be on the flip side of injustice and religious judgment. We were both guilty of condemning
homosexuals before we learned to face our own homosexuality. So, vote for gay rights and understand that simply by not being allowed to marry, we
are denied over 1000 rights that are automatically granted to a married couple (hospital visitation, insurance, etc..). Even if you are not gay,
it effects us all as a society. Just today I learned of a man that has to continue to pay spousal support even though his ex-wife is in a registered
domestic partnership with another woman. Most importantly, it helps protect our children. It provides a more secure future for children if
their parents are protected, especially if one parent passes. So vote with this in mind and certainly give your financial support to organizations
that fight for these issues.

BW: What are the most important aspects of your journey so far so people can understand what you have and are going through as a gay parent?

JH: I have talked to people that said they wish their father had fought to see them or spend time with them. They say that when their parents got divorced, one parent, usually the Dad, never spoke to them again. I know that sounds bad on the Dad’s part, but I now understand how they end up doing that. It is so damn hard to fight in this justice system! But I know for me that is NEVER an option to give up. I only want to spend quality time with my child. A parent should never have to fight for that right! There are times that I felt it was me against the world! In Tennessee, the judge, Robert E. Lee Davies, told me after my 9 year old son testified that I was not capable of making wise decisions since I told my son that I was gay. He would not let me speak
and he not only sentenced me to jail, but took away some visitation time with my son, as well as took away my decision making rights when it came
to my son. It has been hell, but I will not give up and ANY time with my child is worth fighting for. It hurts to know that I have missed so many of his firsts; like sporting events, baptisms, guitar recitals, etc… and I will never get those back. But I am determined to show my son to never give up and that I love him no matter what! None of this is his fault and I only want what’s best for him.

BW: How do you plan to give back once you gain custody of your son? Do you have any plans to start something like a non-profit advocacy organization
to help other people such as yourself in the gay community?

JH: Whether I win custody or not, we will help others fight the fight. We do want to start a non-profit organization to help other gay parents with custody issues. Hopefully we will raise lots of support that can help many others and continue to grow. We have a movie director working on a screen play about our story, and hopefully that movie will encourage and inspire people as well. There really is NO limit to how we want to give back to the gay community. Right now, we enjoy making great music for many talented gay artists and gay-friendly artists alike. Without sounding boastful, some of these artists may not have had the chance to work with a Grammy/Emmy winning record producer if I wouldn’t have been blacklisted by the Christian Music world. And a few of the gay artists that I’ve worked with are gay Christian artists who have also been shunned by the mainstream Christian music market.
Ultimately, we will never stop supporting the gay community.

BW: How has the Christian community backed you in your fight?

JH: The Christian community as a whole has turned their backs. Since I would not live a lie they believe they cannot work with me. I have had family say they cannot be around me because they believed they will be sinning by fellowshipping with me if I don’t repent. Sean and I have been kicked off of a worship team at a church in Tennessee once when an anonymous caller outed us to the pastor. We simply wanted to use our gifts and even though we’ve produced worship records for the world, we were apparently unfit to use our talents in that church. We did continue to go to the church until we found ourselves singing a worship song during one of the services that said, “If You can use anything Lord, You can use me.” We just started feeling angry inside at the hypocrisy. Don’t get me wrong. I have some great friends that love me and are Christian. We both grew up in the Christian world (Sean’s Dad was even a pastor) but the community as a whole does not agree with my lifestyle choice, and in turn are not in agreement with me having custody. Just like the ongoing gay marriage debate.The gay Christian community has been very loving and welcoming. There are organizations like Soulforce that
have helped us and do wonderful work. And just today I received an encouraging letter from Bishop Carlton Pearson who was labeled a heretic
by his church for recently changing his views on homosexuality. So change is slowly happening in the Christian church, and those are the Christians
who are supporting me in this fight.

BW: What other nonprofits do you support that you’d like to mention?

JH: We support all gay organizations that offer help and support to the gay community. We have been supporters of ACLU, HRC, Soulforce, Lambda
Legal… but there are many others out there doing Great work! Please get involved. Whether its volunteering, financial support, prayers,
encouragement, etc… It is changing lives!
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